Forum | Stadium development thoughts by LegendofthePhoenix

Yes that is a potential drawback. It’s hard to make the financial case stack up without having other revenue generating activities though. Interest rates are going up so borrowing £60M at 5% p.a. needs £3M just to cover the interest. Sure they might be able to get a bond at a lower rate, but an extra 5000 seats is only going to make around £2.5M p.a. and that is if they are all sold. So there is a need to include means to generate additional revenues, and to cover lost revenue whilst the rebuilding work goes on. That is one of the reasons so few new stadiums get built.

At what point does it become a necessity though? The Cobbold is 50-odd years old now, is it showing signs of becoming dangerous. Haven’t Birmingham had most of their ground condemned because the stands are crumbling.

Promotion to the PL would at least pay for it, but hopefully not at the expense of improving the team. If we’re still in the Championship in 5 years time though, GC (or whoever the owners are) might have to pay for it.

Someone with more imagination than me would have to figure what additional facilities could be provided to make the stadium a 365 revenue generator, I just think the notion of conferencing might not be the best idea, perhaps something versatile that can provide those kind of facilities but I’d suspect that the focus needs to be the Ipswich/Suffolk community.

In terms of the capacity it’s times like this when we are hitting capacity that you think maybe we can make a leap in terms of the long term size of the club. If we’re at a point where potential new supporters cannot obtain tickets then we may lose those supporters.

If you accept there’s always a degree of attrition in the support where it’s inevitable some will drift away then surely it’s important that you keep availability open to the more casual fan and potential new fans who may become the regulars to replace those that drift away.

I think the funding comes from the ownership rather than new debt or it doesn’t happen at all personally. The current ownership have access to the funds and essentially a vehicle for investing cash rather than taking on debt. If the owners are replaced by new owners then who knows!

Which is why I asked in the OP how high the owners ambitions are. If we were to get promoted to the PL, we’re then in a world where the income you receive has to go on players salaries, typically 70% of turnover, in order to stay there. Which prevents using the cash for stadium development. Maybe if player contracts take account of relegation, it might be possible to yoyo a couple of times and use parachute payments, but it’s risky. Or maybe ORG would fund the rebuild in the hope they could sell the club as an established PL team with a 36000 stadium in 5-7 years time.

[Post edited 27 May 10:22]

Essentially it’s a like people who flip houses for profit. Buy a property that due to its condition is valued at nowhere near its potential and invest in the property to sell it at a much larger return. Not rebuilding the Cobbold will he like leaving the crappy old kitchen in the house and will mean you will not be able to obtain the highest price when you come to sell.

My hope is the current owners understand that making a compromise between investments in the team and stadium do not make huge sense and they do both!

Maybe business would choose ipswich over London ( lower unit / venue hire prices in Ipswich, next to station, cheaper hotels, nice surrounding area if staying for a couple of days)

I agree with your summary. I believe there is an opportunity to drive revenue from such things as conferencing, venue hire, ‘away days’, local community stuff in Ipswich. It’s the difference between a facility that hosts 23 home games and little else and something that can also do the above.

You are not going to replicate say the media centre of the Oval, the facilities at Spurs and Arsenal etc but you can do something more regional, with its own identity and attraction. In terms of accessibility, nowhere is that easy to get to in this country and none if it is cheap.

The situation now is different to the Sheepshanks time or Cobbold’s 82 West Stand/Pioneer come to that finance and opportunity wise. By buying the Staples land the owners have shown their intent. The stadium does need a lot of work, co-operation with the LA and lateral thinking to improve it.

I agree with a capacity of 35,000 – that feels right to me. Once they’ve decided on what they are going to do the first challenge is the Cobbold/Portman/East Stand. 52 years old, it shows its age, particularly inside. Is it as decrepit as Birmingham’s? Can it be redeveloped without replacement, assuming they cannot move the stand back? Lots of questions, no answers, but it’s very exciting.

The thing is if business is in London then it chooses London. If business is national then it likes the midlands so everyone can get there.

The question you need to ask yourself is ‘why doesn’t business choose Ipswich’. If you can solve that then you’re winning.

I think Ashton and GC20 see the Community links as key here. They see that ITFC can stimulate the attractiveness and growth of Ipswich itself. If ITFC shine, could IBC get more government investment in infrastructure? How about a better train service to the Midlands?

I know little of Ipswich the town but the development along the waterfront seems pretty good/attractive, so more along there would tempt people up. And Suffolk itself has plenty of natural beauty. At only an hour on the train from London, and generally better weather than the Midlands, I don’t see why Ipswich couldn’t be a viable destination if there were enough investment in it.

Very interesting.

Stand out for me… Wolves stadium due to hit 50,000 and Charlton 40,000. s

Charlton struggle to get decent crowds due to poor ownership and management, but the most stunning thing to think of there; the old East Terrace held 45,000 or so on its own. My father was regularly in crowds of 60,000+ there back in 1950s.

I hope these grounds are extended and well attended, not just the likes of the biggest clubs.

I think one thing you cannot replicate in Ipswich is access from the North or West of the country. It just can’t be done so anything done has to be at a local and regional level. In a way GC have done the easy bit. They have invested in a football team and it’s captured the imagination of the local community.

That said on a much larger scale there must be an interest in the town. Given the shifting dynamic in hybrid working there is a lower premium attached to the ease of commuting to London etc. Where I am there’s 35-40 min train links onto the smoke within 15 min drive. The price of property here is far higher than Ipswich and Suffolk generally. If I’d not put down roots here I’d be extremely tempted to move to Suffolk.

There’s an opportunity for Suffolk to attract South East tossers like me because frankly it’s a lovely place and it’s cheaper. If it does that then more money comes in. There is something worth investing in but Ipswich itself needs some love because Southern tossers like stuff like Bicester Village, IKEA and Westfield. To think maybe you could centre new retail and leisure in a location next to somewhere 30000 people congregate 23 times a year is maybe a win/win.

I think essentially GC saw the football club and the town and area generally has having a lot of unrealised potential that in a lot of ways has been down to mismanagement and lack of investment. Good management + Investment + Potential = profit. I don’t think these guys are afraid to think big.

Yeah it’s quite fascinating that it seems virtually everyone seems to have ambitious plans.

Suspect Charlton is a symptom of Saandgaard’s vanity being a lot deeper than his pockets though.

Yeah I think the potential is there if only we knew ambitious individuals who can see the opportunity and have lots of cash. Let me think do we?

Edit – as a side note seeing your avatar. Do you think Fruity had Scofield’s number all along?

[Post edited 27 May 11:42]

Regarding Conference facilities, I think some may be assuming Conferences are all National events. Many are regional events, even if the organisation is National or International. I’ve had experience of the difficulties in finding venues which can take more than 120 (let alone do the job properly) for regional gatherings of staff, so I would say there is a market for such facilities, even in an outpost like Ipswich, particularly if it’s done as well as everything else Gamechanger have done so far. And you’re right about the money, it’s investment no borrowings.

Ha, I’d forgotten about that. Did he rugby tackle him on stage or something?

Thanks for the link, that is very interesting. £75M for a 13,500 capacity (pretty high quality) stand, its roughly in line with what I estimated. Obviously Palace are fairly well established in the PL now. Wolves, even Charlton, planning to increase capacity. And the Valley is a lot younger than PR. The Cobbold Stand is really cramped, and impossible to get served in the bars – it’s desperately in need of replacing.
ORG obviously have the funds to do it, without it affecting revenues for players as stadium development doesn’t fall within FFP. Just a question of whether they think they would recoup the outlay when they come to sell.

Yep at the Brits if I remember rightly!

Interesting. I’m not experienced in conferencing bar going to a few and the Coventry City experience was interesting as it’s very well situated on a motorway intersection with tonnes of car parking but literally the stadium and conferencing is the only reason to go there. That said when I went there were at least two large events on the same day followed by dinner overlooking the pitch and stadium and the car parks were pretty full. It struck me that they must be making a fair amount of revenue.

I think what we have is a different scenario where we are relatively close and central to the population and can’t recreate the motorway intersection or central location nationally but have our own advantages. Re conferencing specifically then I’m sure the club would be interested in the potential but it’s hard to see how you can generate as much revenue in Ipswich on a local/regional level as others can on a national level.

I think you’re right. I do think that this is the big picture. To be at the front of the community, to invest and attract money and profit. These guys aren’t stupid and there has to be a bigger picture than Ipswich Town FC.